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卡西迪·哈钦森在1月6日委员会上的惊人证词的关键要点

2022-06-29 08:07  -ABC   - 

众议院1月6日委员会的周二的惊喜听证会报道了备受期待的爆炸性证词,证词来自在国会大厦袭击发生时和之前几天都在白宫的人。

时任美国总统唐纳德·特朗普(Donald Trump)的幕僚长马克·梅多斯(Mark Meadows)的前高级顾问卡西迪·哈钦森(Michael Hutchinson)花了大约两个小时披露了袭击发生前、发生中和发生后的幕后细节。

委员会成员甚至一些特朗普的前工作人员都称赞这位25岁的女孩表现出了公开发表证词的勇气。本尼.汤普森主席。她说,成员们觉得“立即”向她提供“第一手”资料很重要

“获得这些信息并不总是容易的,因为推动前总统压力运动以推翻选举的那些人现在正试图掩盖1月6日的真相,”汤普森说。“但是由于某些人的勇气,真相不会被掩盖。美国人民不会被蒙在鼓里。”

根据哈钦森的证词,副主席利兹·切尼(R-Wyo)认为,特朗普和梅多斯去年很清楚国会大厦可能发生暴力,但最终驳回了警告。哈钦森说,特朗普甚至要求和他的支持者一起被带到国会大厦,尽管他的团队担心合法性和安全性。

以下是哈钦森证词中的一些要点:

特朗普的幕僚长知道1月6日可能会变得“非常非常糟糕”

哈钦森在委员会面前开始了她的揭露性陈述,她说,梅多斯在2021年1月2日警告过她,“事情可能会在1月6日变得非常非常糟糕。”

她说,梅多斯在与鲁迪·朱利安尼会面后向哈钦森发表了上述言论,鲁迪·朱利安尼当时是特朗普推翻选举的竞选活动的核心人物。她说,会后,朱利安尼热情地与哈钦森谈论了去国会大厦的计划。

哈钦森说,“这将是伟大的,”朱利安尼对她说。“总统会在那里。他会看起来很强大。”

当她走进梅多斯的办公室转达朱利安尼告诉她的话时,她说梅多斯回答说,1月6日的情况可能有多“糟糕”。

“那天晚上是我记得第一次对1月6日可能发生的事情感到害怕和紧张,”她告诉小组成员。

哈钦森作证说,梅多斯通常知道1月6日可能发生暴力,但没有采取行动。哈钦森作证说,梅多斯和朱利安尼都表示有兴趣就1月6日的事件寻求赦免。朱利安尼周二否认要求赦免。梅多斯没有对哈钦森的证词发表评论。

白宫律师担心刑事指控

哈钦森告诉委员会,几名白宫工作人员对特朗普打算在1月6日做的事情的合法性表示担忧。她说,他们担心的具体罪行包括骗取选举票数或妨碍司法公正。

哈钦森说,争论的焦点之一是特朗普在椭圆广场的演讲。她回忆说,特朗普的律师埃里克·赫希曼(Eric Herschmann)敦促演讲稿撰写人避免特朗普要求纳入的“愚蠢”语言,如“为我而战”和“我们要游行到国会大厦”等短语。

1月6日上午,哈钦森说,白宫法律顾问帕特·西波尔隆(Pat Cipollone)坚持认为,特朗普不应该陪同他的支持者前往国会大厦。

“如果我们发起那场运动,我们将会被指控犯下任何可以想象到的罪行,”她回忆起当时西波洛内告诉她的话。

特朗普知道他的支持者有武器

委员会将1月6日的文本作为视觉辅助工具进行展示,哈钦森回忆说,特朗普对1月6日在椭圆广场举行的集会的人群规模以及不想让持有武器的人进来的顾问感到“愤怒”。据哈钦森说,官员们警告说,这些武器包括手枪、步枪、熊喷雾和插有长矛的旗杆。

她说,特朗普希望金属探测器被拿走。

“我在附近的一次谈话中,无意中听到总统说了一些话,大意是,你知道,“我不在乎他们有没有武器。他们不是来伤害我的。把f-mag拿走。“让我的人进来,”她回忆道。他们可以从这里游行到国会大厦。让人们进来。把f-mag拿走。"

切尼说,哈钦森的证词证明,特朗普在集会上讲话时“知道人群中有一些人持有武器,穿着防弹衣”,并敦促他们向国会大厦行进。

她要求美国人“反思一下”

“愤怒的”特朗普抓住了总统SUV的方向盘

在听证会最令人震惊的时刻之一,哈钦森回忆起听到特朗普在被安全人员告知他不能去国会大厦会见支持者后被赶出椭圆广场时变得“愤怒”。

哈钦森当时不在SUV里,但她说,当所有人都回到白宫时,她从特勤局高级官员托尼·奥尔纳托那里听到了这个说法。哈钦森说,特朗普的安保负责人鲍比·恩格尔也在房间里

“总统说了一些话,大意是,‘我是该死的总统,现在带我去国会大厦’——鲍比回应道,‘先生,我们必须回到白宫西翼’,”她继续说道。”总统伸手到车前去抓方向盘。恩格尔抓住他的胳膊说,先生,你需要把你的手从方向盘上拿开。我们要回白宫西翼。“我们不去国会大厦,”

“特朗普先生然后用另一只手向鲍比·恩格尔扑去,当奥尔纳托先生向我讲述这个故事时,他指了指自己的锁骨,”她说。

在周二晚些时候的一份声明中,特勤局重申,它一直在与众议院委员会合作,并打算继续合作,“包括在记录中对哈钦森的证词做出回应”。

两名熟悉的消息人士向美国广播公司新闻证实,特朗普确实在1月6日要求去国会大厦,特勤局出于安全考虑拒绝了。其中一个消息来源说,前总统在椭圆广场演讲后确实回到了他的汽车,并问恩格尔他是否可以去国会大厦,恩格尔回答说,基本上,这是不明智的。

在另一个据称特朗普爆发的事件中,哈钦森周二告诉委员会,在得知时任司法部长比尔·巴尔(Bill Barr)接受美联社(Associated Press)采访时,他将午餐扔向白宫餐厅的墙壁,巴尔在采访中明确表示,司法部没有发现选举中存在广泛欺诈的证据。哈钦森说,这不是特朗普第一次愤怒地扔盘子或桌布。

梅多斯想在1月5日去“作战室”

哈钦森作证说,白宫知道一个“作战室”在1月5日晚聚集在华盛顿的威拉德酒店。

哈钦森说,特朗普要求梅多斯在集会前一天与特朗普的长期助手罗杰·斯通和前国家安全顾问迈克尔·弗林通电话,梅多斯要求她考虑为他设立特勤局,以便当晚前往“停止偷窃”运动的神经中枢。

她说,她向梅多斯表达了她不认为这是一个“明智的想法”或“白宫办公厅主任应该参加或参与的事情”,几天前她无意中听到吉利亚尼提到“誓言守护者”和“骄傲的男孩”,她早些时候作证。

哈钦森回忆说,最终,梅多斯放弃了这个请求,并说他将拨入一个会议。

斯通通过他的律师表示,他和梅多斯没有交谈。“明确声明,斯通先生在1月5日或6日没有和梅多斯先生说过话或进行过其他交流。此外,斯通先生两天都没有接到梅多斯先生的电话,”格兰特·史密斯独家告诉ABC新闻。

特朗普于2020年12月赦免了弗林,因为他在与俄罗斯大使的谈话中向联邦调查局撒谎,此前他曾出现在委员会面前,并多次援引第五修正案反对自证其罪的权利。

在委员会播放的一段剪辑中,切尼问弗林是否“相信权力的和平过渡”。

“第五个,”弗林回答。

Key takeaways from Cassidy Hutchinson's bombshell testimony to Jan. 6 committee

The House Jan. 6 committee'ssurprise hearing on Tuesdayfeatured highly-anticipated and explosive testimony from someone who was inside the White House both as the Capitol attack unfolded and in the days before.

Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top adviser to then-President Donald Trump's chief of staff Mark Meadows, spent some two hours divulging details about what went on behind-the-scenes leading up to, during and after the attack.

Committee members and even some former Trump staffers hailed the 25-year-old for showing the courage to deliver her testimony publicly. Chair Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said members felt it important to offer her "firsthand" accounts "immediately."

"It hasn't always been easy to get that information, because the same people who drove the former president's pressure campaign to overturn the election are now trying to cover up the truth about Jan. 6," Thompson said. "But thanks to the courage of certain individuals, the truth won't be buried. The American people won't be left in the dark."

With Hutchinson's testimony, Vice Chair Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., argued that Trump and Meadows were well aware of the potential for violence at the Capitol last year yet ultimately dismissed the warnings. Trump even demanded to be taken to the Capitol alongside his supporters, Hutchinson said, despite concerns of legality and security from his team.

Here are some key takeaways from Hutchinson's testimony:

Trump's chief of staff knew Jan. 6 might get 'real, real bad'

Kicking off her revelatory account before the committee, Hutchinson said that Meadows had warned her on Jan. 2, 2021, that "things might get real, real bad on Jan. 6."

She said Meadows made the remarks to Hutchinson after meeting with Rudy Giuliani, who was at that point a central figure in Trump's campaign to overturn the election. After the meeting, Giuliani talked enthusiastically to Hutchinson about plans to go to the Capitol, she said.

"It's going to be great," Giuliani said to her, Hutchinson said. "The president's going to be there. He's going to look powerful."

When she walked into Meadows' office to relay what Giuliani told her, she said Meadows responded with the remark about how "bad" the situation may be on Jan. 6.

"That evening was the first moment that I remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on Jan. 6," she told the panel.

Hutchinson testified that Meadows generally knew about the potential for violence on Jan. 6 but failed to act. Both Meadows and Giuliani expressed an interest in seeking pardons over the events of Jan. 6, Hutchinson testified. Giuliani on Tuesday denied asking for a pardon. Meadows has not commented on Hutchinson's testimony.

White House lawyers worried about criminal charges

Several White House staffers expressed concerns about the legality of what Trump intended to do on Jan. 6, Hutchinson told the committee. Specific crimes they were concerned about, she said, included defrauding the electoral count or obstructing justice.

One point of contention was Trump's speech at the Ellipse, Hutchinson said. She recalled Trump lawyer Eric Herschmann urging speechwriters to avoid "foolish" language that Trump requested be included, such as the phrases "fight for me" and "we're going to march to the Capitol."

On the morning of Jan. 6, Hutchinson said White House counsel Pat Cipollone was adamant that Trump shouldn't accompany his supporters to the Capitol.

"We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen," she recalled Cipollone telling her at the time.

Trump knew his supporters were armed

With the committee displaying texts from Jan. 6 as visual aids, Hutchinson recalled how Trump was "furious" with the crowd size of his rally at the Ellipse on Jan. 6 and with advisers who didn't want to let in individuals who had weapons. Those weapons included pistols, rifles, bear spray and flagpoles with spears attached to them, officials warned, according to Hutchinson.

Trump, she said, wanted the metal detectors to be taken away.

"I was in the vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the president say something to the effect of, you know, "I don't f------ care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take the f------ mags away. Let my people in," she recalled. "They can march to the Capitol from here. Let the people in. Take the f------ mags away."

Cheney said Hutchinson's testimony established that Trump "was aware that a number of individuals in the crowd had weapons and were wearing body armor" when he spoke at the rally and urged them to then march to the Capitol.

She asked Americans to "reflect on that for a moment"

An 'irate' Trump grabbed the wheel inside presidential SUV

In one of the hearing's most shocking moments, Hutchinson recalled hearing how Trump turned "irate" as he was driven away from the Ellipse after being told by his security that he could not go to the Capitol to meet supporters.

Hutchinson was not in the SUV at the time but said she heard the account from Tony Ornato, a senior Secret Service official, when everyone was back at the White House. Also in the room was Bobby Engel, the head of Trump's security detail, Hutchinson said

"The president said something to the effect of, 'I'm the effing president, take me up to the Capitol now' -- to which Bobby responded, 'Sir, we have to go back to the West Wing,'" she continued. "The president reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm and said, 'Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol.'

"Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge toward Bobby Engel and when Mr. Ornato recounted this story to me, he motioned toward his clavicles," she said.

In a statement later Tuesday, the Secret Service reiterated that it had been cooperating and intended to continue to cooperate with the House committee, "including by responding on the record" to Hutchinson's testimony.

Two sources familiar confirmed to ABC News that Trump had indeed requested to go to Capitol on Jan. 6 and that the Secret Service refused due to security concerns. One of those sources said that the former president did return to his vehicle after his speech at the Ellipse and asked Engel if he could go to the Capitol, with Engel responding, essentially, that it was unwise.

In another alleged incident of Trump having an outburst, Hutchinson told the committee Tuesday that he threw his lunch at the wall in the White House dining room after learning about then-Attorney General Bill Barr's interview with the Associated Press in which Barr made it clear the Department of Justice found no evidence of widespread fraud in the election. It wasn't the first time Trump threw a dish or tablecloth in anger, Hutchinson said.

Meadows wanted to go to the 'war room' on Jan. 5

Hutchinson testified that the White House was aware of a "war room" assembled in the Willard Hotel in Washington on the night of Jan. 5.

Hutchinson said Trump asked Meadows to speak by phone with Roger Stone, a longtime Trump aide, and former national security adviser Michael Flynn the day before the rally, and that Meadows asked her to look into setting up Secret Service for him to go to the nerve center of the "Stop the Steal" movement that night.

She said she expressed to Meadows she didn't think was a "smart idea" or "something appropriate for the White House chief of staff to attend or be involved in," coming days after she overheard Guiliani mentioning "Oath Keepers" and "Proud Boys," she testified earlier.

Eventually, Meadows dropped the request and said he would dial into a meeting, Hutchinson recalled.

Stone, for his part, said through his attorney that he and Meadows did not talk. "Unequivocally stated, Mr. Stone did not speak to or otherwise communicate with Mr. Meadows on January 5th or 6th. Additionally, Mr. Stone did not receive a call from Mr. Meadows on either day,” Grant Smith exclusively told ABC News.

Flynn, who Trump pardoned in December 2020 for lying to the FBI about conversations with the Russian ambassador, previously appeared before the committee and repeatedly invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

In a clip played by the committee, Cheney asked Flynn if he "believed in the peaceful transition of power."

"The Fifth," Flynn replied.

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