随着唐纳德·特朗普总统的弹劾审判继续进行,两党议员之间出现了一个共识:证人交换甚至不是考虑因素。
“这不像一些幻想中的足球交易,”众议院弹劾首席经理亚当·希夫(加州民主党)周三说。
参议院少数党领袖查克·舒默(纽约民主党)同意说:“那是不可讨论的。“共和党人有权带进他们想要的任何证人。他们不想。那笔交易不在谈判桌上。”
几个星期以来,关于可能交换证人的想法一直悬而未决,比如前副总统乔·拜登的儿子亨特与前特朗普国家安全顾问约翰·博尔顿。这一协议可能会在审判的晚些时候出现,很可能是下周的某个时候,在开庭辩论和立法者的问答阶段之后,传唤证人的话题会被讨论。
但是达成这样一项潜在协议的可能性似乎微乎其微,因为许多共和党人已经表示,他们不认为有任何证人是必要的,民主党人表示,亨特·拜登与此事无关。本周早些时候,共和党否决了民主党提出的十几项审判规则修正案,这些修正案将传唤证人和文件,并确保在晚些时候就此事进行投票。
“弥补众议院弹劾条款的不足不是参议院的责任,”参议员约翰·科宁(得克萨斯州共和党人)说。“但如果有,比如米克·马尔瓦尼或约翰·博尔顿这样的证人来了,白宫总是会要求行政特权。会有诉讼...这可能需要几个月的时间。与此同时,参议院不能做任何其他事情。”
参议院少数党领袖查理斯·舒默(纽约州民主党)1月22日在华盛顿特区美国国会大厦举行的唐纳德·特朗普总统弹劾审判休息期间,等待参议员约翰·科宁(德克萨斯州共和党)结束与记者的谈话
舒默周四补充说,“没有一个共和党人”还没有和他讨论证人交换的想法。“不会发生,”他说。
共和党人想打电话给亨特·拜登,因为他们指控他以前在乌克兰天然气公司Burisma董事会的职务充满腐败。特朗普希望对该公司进行调查,该公司是他被弹劾的核心原因。
众议院情报委员会主席希夫指责他的共和党同僚想传唤亨特·拜登,以便“诽谤[·乔·拜登”,并“实施他们试图让乌克兰诽谤拜登时无法实施的计划”
民主党人希望听到博尔顿的消息,此外还有白宫代理参谋长米克·马尔瓦尼、马尔瓦尼的高级助手罗伯特·布莱尔以及管理和预算办公室高级官员迈克尔·杜菲,他们都被认为对总统在乌克兰的事务有第一手的了解,包括特朗普和他周围的人推动外国实体对拜登夫妇进行调查时停止军事援助的决定。
参议员特德·克鲁兹(得克萨斯州共和党人)将亨特·拜登的潜在证词描述为“直接相关”和“关键的”然而,他详细阐述了是否传唤证人的决定应该由各政党和特朗普的辩护团队各自做出。
“我认为参议院不应该强迫各方传唤证人,因为[总统的律师没有做出传唤的决定,”他说。
特朗普的法律辩护律师之一、私人律师杰伊·塞库洛(Jay Sekulow)告诉记者,考虑到众议院弹劾经理还有两天的公开辩论,他们尚未“就我们可能传唤的证人做出任何决定”。“我们甚至不知道是否会有目击者,”他补充道。
并非所有共和党人都意见一致。一些人仍然对交换的想法持开放态度,更温和的成员,如缅因州共和党参议员苏珊·科林斯,已经表示他们可能需要证人,如博尔顿和马尔瓦尼。
“我认为我们不需要额外的证人,但我的观点是,如果我们要传唤证人,那么我想听听一些人的意见,”乔什·霍利参议员(共和党议员)。)说。
这些人包括亨特·拜登,他说他是“相关的”和“重要的”证人,希夫和匿名举报者,他们把特朗普与乌克兰总统沃洛迪米尔·泽兰斯基的电话公开。举报者对特朗普7月25日与乌克兰同行jump通电话的投诉引发了众议院弹劾调查,共和党人指责希夫误导公众,因为在投诉曝光之前,匿名人士曾联系过他的办公室。
特朗普在推特上表达了他对证人交流的想法,指责民主党拒绝这一想法,因为“西弗蒂·希夫、拜登夫妇、假举报者(&他的律师)、第二个举报者(在我公布笔录后消失了)、所谓的“告密者”&许多其他民主党灾难,对他们来说将是一个大问题!”
参议院多数党领袖米奇·麦康奈尔。)很少提到证人交换。但上周,他对这种可能性敞开了大门。
他说:“当你谈到这个问题时,我无法想象只有我们民主党同事想传唤的证人会被传唤。”。
SENATORS SAY NO DEAL ON BIDEN-BOLTON WITNESS EXCHANGE IN IMPEACHMENT TRIAL: 'THIS ISN'T LIKE SOME FANTASY FOOTBALL TRADE'
As President Donald Trump's impeachment trial continues to play out, one area of agreement has emerged among lawmakers from both sides of the aisle: a witness exchange isn't even a consideration.
"This isn't like some fantasy football trade," Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), lead impeachment manager, said Wednesday.
"That's off the table," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) agreed. "The Republicans have the right to bring in any witness they want. They haven't wanted to. That trade is not on the table."
The notion of a potential exchange for witnesses, such as former Vice President Joe Biden's son Hunter for former Trump national security adviser John Bolton, has been up in the air for weeks. It's a deal that could emerge later in the trial, likely sometime next week, when the topic of subpoenaing witnesses is debated following opening arguments and a question-and-answer period for lawmakers.
But the likelihood of such a potential deal seems miniscule, as many Republicans have said they don't believe any witnesses are necessary and Democrats say Hunter Biden is irrelevant to hear from. Republicans shot down nearly a dozen Democratic amendments offered for the trial rules earlier this week that would have subpoenaed witnesses and documents, as well as ensuring there's a vote on the matter at a later date.
"It's not the Senate's responsibility to make up for the deficiencies in the House's articles of impeachment," Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said. "But if there were, let's say a witness like Mick Mulvaney or John Bolton, come, invariably the White House would claim executive privilege. There'd be a lawsuit...that could take months. In the meantime, the Senate can't do anything else."
Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-NY) (2nd R) waits for Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) to finish talking to reporters restricted to a pen outside the Senate Chamber during a break in President Donald Trump's impeachment trial at the U.S. Capitol January 22 in Washington, D.C.
Schumer added Thursday that "not a single Republican" had yet to discuss with him the idea of a witness swap. "Not happening," he said.
Republicans want to call Hunter Biden because they allege his former role on the board of Ukrainian gas company Burisma, which Trump wanted to be investigated and is at the center of why he was impeached, was riddled with corruption.
Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, accused his GOP counterparts of wanting to subpoena Hunter Biden in order to "smear [Joe] Biden" and "effectuate the scheme that they were unable to do when they tried to get Ukraine to smear the Bidens."
Democrats want to hear from Bolton, in addition to acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, top Mulvaney aide Robert Blair and senior Office of Management and Budget official Michael Duffey, all of whom are believed to have firsthand knowledge of the president's Ukraine dealings, including the decision to withhold military aid as Trump and those around him pushed the foreign entity to conduct investigations into the Bidens.
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) characterized Hunter Biden's potential testimony as "directly relevant" and "critical." However, he elaborated that the decision on whether to summon witnesses should be one that the political parties and Trump's defense team each make.
"I don't think the Senate should force the parties to call witnesses that [the president's] lawyers don't make the decision to call," he said.
One of the members of Trump's legal defense, personal attorney Jay Sekulow, told reporters they've yet to make "any determinations on what witnesses we might call," considering House impeachment managers have two more days of opening arguments. "We don't even know if there will be witnesses," he added.
Not all Republicans are on the same page. Some are still open to the idea of an exchange, and more moderate members, such as Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), have signaled they'll likely want witnesses, like Bolton and Mulvaney.
"I don't think we need additional witnesses, but my point is, if we're going to call witnesses, then there's a number of folks I'd like to hear from," Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) said.
Those people included Hunter Biden, who he said was "relevant" and a "material" witness, Schiff and the anonymous whistleblower who put Trump's phone call with Ukranian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in the public eye. The whistleblower's complaint about Trump's July 25 phone call with his Ukrainian counterpart jump started the House impeachment inquiry and Republicans have accused Schiff of misleading the public because his office was contacted by the anonymous person prior to the complaint coming to light.
Trump voiced his thought on a witness exchange in a tweet, accusing Democrats of rejecting the idea because "Shifty Schiff, the Biden's, the fake Whistleblower(& his lawyer), the second Whistleblower (who vanished after I released the Transcripts), the so-called "informer", & many other Democrat disasters, would be a BIG problem for them!"
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has said little about a witness exchange. But last week, he left the door open on the possibility.
"When you get to that issue, I can't imagine that only the witnesses that our Democratic colleagues would want to call would be called," he said.