黛博拉·比克斯(Deborah Birx)在接受美国广播公司(ABC News)采访时说，在讨论冠状病毒时，她与唐纳德·特朗普(Donald Trump)总统的关系“公开表示尊重，私下非常明确”“发电站政治”播客周三。

比尔克斯在白宫冠状病毒工作队简报会后面临一些反弹，因为她没有大声纠正总统关于如何治疗病毒的说法，如使用漂白剂或阳光，但她告诉美国广播公司新闻政治主任里克·克莱因和白宫首席记者乔纳森·卡尔，她对疫情的“解释”在闭门会议中“非常清楚”。

“我想没有人真正知道我在白宫做了什么，”她说。“这一切都会水落石出，因为——这些数据——我每天都写报告，所以很清楚，我对疫情的解释。”

“我在军队服役了29年，我在公开场合总是非常尊重人，在私下里也非常清楚。从军队出来后，我们的一条规则是你是一名士兵，你服从命令，直到这是一个非法的命令。我不得不说，在我入主白宫的40年中，有10个月是在公共服务领域，我从未接到过非法命令。所以我从来不需要打破这个命令链，”她补充道。

她说，她和她的团队还把他们的信息带给了媒体和当地政府机构。

“我认为你可以和州长和市长谈谈，”她补充道。“我们私下里也和他们说得很清楚。然后我们也出去做新闻，我们试着对他们国家的人民非常清楚。但我经常发现，如果你有一些具有挑战性的事情要做，私下里去做，并且尽一切努力说服人们需要做什么，这真的很重要。”

帕特里克·斯曼斯基/美联社

2020年12月15日，亚特兰大，当选总统乔·拜登走上舞台，在佐治亚州民主党参议员拉斐尔·沃诺克和乔恩·奥索夫候选人的汽车集会上发言

卡尔问比尔克斯，一旦拜登就职，她是否打算以某种身份与拜登政府合作。

“我一直在与过渡团队联系，告诉他们我如何看待美国的疫情，给他们发送幻灯片和数据，以便他们了解我看到的情况，”她说。“作为一名公务员，我会回到我的家乡，我想，这将由拜登政府来决定我是否能成为一名有用的人...或者没有。”

Birx说，她目前还没有尝试接种疫苗:她将推迟接种，直到她所在年龄组中患有共病的人成为下一个接种对象。

“我很想接种疫苗，但我想我必须等到轮到我的时候，根据我的年龄和我的合并症，”她说。

克莱因问她政治家和地方领导人的立场。

“特别是当我们看到代理国防部长，他只获得了另一个月的工作，西弗吉尼亚州的州长，是那些几乎比这个国家的任何人都先接种疫苗的人，有医学上的理由看到政治领导人基本上跳过这条线，先走吗?或者当类似的事情发生时，这是一种系统崩溃吗?”他问道。

乔·雷德尔/盖蒂影像公司

2020年12月14日，佛罗里达州米拉马尔，纪念医疗系统的药剂师戴安娜·卡罗来纳在纪念医疗系统接受来自ARNP莫尼卡·普加的辉瑞-生物技术新冠肺炎疫苗。医院系统宣布将为接触新冠肺炎患者的一线工作人员接种疫苗。

“我认为他想向每个西弗吉尼亚人证明，你需要接种这种疫苗，这很重要，”比尔克斯在谈到西弗吉尼亚州州长吉姆·贾斯蒂斯时说。“我认为自己是一名公务员。所以我认为自己是一个日常必需的工作者。我不想越界，”她补充道。

尽管如此，她说她“完全支持疫苗接种”

“我知道这种疫苗是如何制造的。我理解疫苗的安全性。至关重要的是，我理解这种疫苗效力的深度。这是我们传染病库中最高效的疫苗之一。这就是为什么我对疫苗非常感兴趣，”她补充道。

比尔克斯说，她估计，一旦最脆弱的美国人接受疫苗，其他人也可以接种，生活将开始恢复正常。

“我想说明这个等式有两个非常重要的方面。有群体免疫，这将防止社区传播，然后人们需要什么，以公平的方式，绝对清楚地防止严重的疾病，住院和死亡，”她说。

Birx说，通过优先考虑基本工作人员和长期护理设施中的人员，最弱势的美国人可以在3月初完全接种疫苗，届时该国可以开始走向群体免疫。

但她说，在这个国家达到这一点之前，美国人必须熬过冬天，这就是她继续越野旅行的原因，她花了25000英里去了43个州。

“我们去过43个州，其中大部分去过两次以上，与州长、市长、社区、我们不可思议的医院工作人员进行了真正深入的交流。真正努力去理解人们在看什么，在实地需要做什么，以及我们如何才能最大限度地给予支持。最重要的是，当我们谈话时，人们听到了什么，”她说。“这真的很重要，因为事情有时会断章取义。所以我们从六月底就开始上路了。她说:“我对美国、我们的幅员和我们不同的人口了解了很多。

卡尔问Birx关于一个简报，他试图澄清疾病控制中心的指导方针和冠状病毒工作队关于测试无症状个体的建议之间的差异，说她的回答当时误解了他的问题。

“你的回答暗示我错了。我没有。然后总统欣然接受了，”他说。“我的意思是，这是一个重要的问题，不是吗?让疾控中心最终改变其指导方针，这样我们就可以看到对无症状个体的测试。我知道你支持它，这也是我问你这个问题的原因。”

Birx说让疾控中心改变它的指导方针是她加入白宫团队的部分原因。

“这是我长期以来的主张。坦率地说，这是我入主白宫的部分原因。显然，这不是我的工作。我有很多追踪流行病和理解流行病曲线的经验，”她说。

“我可以看出，我们没有处理核心问题。在意大利你没有那样的曲线。在纽约你没有那种曲线，只有有症状的病人。只是说不通而已。因此，要么你必须有惊人的雾化和表面传播，要么你必须有沉默和无症状的传播的大部分。所以从一开始我就很担心。我从一开始就一直在强调这个问题，因为我认为这是核心问题，”她补充道。

Dr. Birx on her relationship with Trump: 'Respectful in public but very clear in private'

Dr. Deborah Birx’s rapport with President Donald Trump is “respectful in public and very clear in private” when it comes to discussions about the coronavirus, she said on ABC News’“Powerhouse Politics”podcast Wednesday.

Birx faced some backlash following White House coronavirus task force briefings for not loudly correcting the president on claims he made about how to treat the virus, like using bleach or sunshine, but she told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein and Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl that her "interpretation of the epidemic" was “very clear” behind closed doors.

“I think no one really knows what I've done inside the White House,” she said. “That will all come to light because -- this data -- I write a daily report, so it's very clear, my interpretation of the epidemic.”

“I served in the military for 29 years and I've always been very respectful in public and very clear in private. And having come out of the military, our one rule is you're a soldier, and you follow command until it's an unlawful order. And I have to say, in my time in the White House, which is 10 months out of my 40 years in public service, I never received an unlawful order. And so I never had to break with that chain of command,” she added.

She said she and her team have also taken their messages to the press and to local government entities.

“I think you can talk to governors and mayors,” she added. “We've also been very clear with them in private. Then we also go out and do press and we try to be very clear to the people of their state. But I've often found it's really important, if you have something challenging to deliver, that you deliver that in private and you work very hard to use everything that you have to convince people of what needs to be done.”

Karl asked Birx if she intends to work with the Biden administration in some capacity once he takes office.

“I've been in touch with the transition teams to give them how I see the epidemic in the United States, to send them slides and data so that they understand what I'm seeing,” she said. “As a civil servant, I would go back to where I came from, I imagine, and it would be up to the Biden administration to decide if I could be any utility ... or not.”

Birx said she isn’t trying to get the vaccine just yet: She’s holding off until those in her age group with her comorbidities are next in line.

“I would love to get vaccinated, but I think I have to wait until it's my turn, by my age and my comorbidities,” she said.

Klein asked her about where politicians and local leaders fall in line.

“Particularly when we see that the acting defense secretary, who has only got the job for another month, the governor of West Virginia, are among those who've gotten the vaccine before almost anyone else in the country, is there a medical reason to see political leadership essentially jump the line, go first? Or is that kind of a system breakdown when something like that happens?” he asked.

“I think he wanted to demonstrate to every West Virginian that you need to get this vaccine and it's important,” Birx said of West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice. “I consider myself a civil servant. So I consider myself in an everyday essential worker category. I do not want to jump the line" she added.

Still, she said she's "totally supportive of vaccination.”

“I understand how this vaccine was made. I understand the safety of the vaccine. And critically, I understand the depth of the efficacy of this vaccine. This is one of the most highly-effective vaccines we have in our infectious disease arsenal. And so that's why I'm very enthusiastic about the vaccine,” she added.

Birx says she estimates life will start to return to normal once the most vulnerable Americans receive the vaccine and it becomes available to other members of the population.

“I want to make it clear there's two very important sides to that equation. There is herd immunity, which would prevent community spread, and then there's absolute clarity on what people need, in an equity way, to prevent severe disease, hospitalizations and fatalities,” she said.

Birx said that by prioritizing essential workers and those in long-term care facilities, the most vulnerable Americans can be fully vaccinated by the beginning of March, at which point the country can begin moving toward herd immunity.

But before the country can reach that point, she said, Americans must get through the winter, which is why she is continuing her cross-country travels, which has taken her 25,000 miles to 43 states.

“We've been to 43 states, most of them more than two times, really in-depth communication with governors, mayors, community, our incredible hospital staff. And really trying to understand what people are seeing, and what needs to be done on the ground, and how we can be most supportive. And most importantly, what people are hearing when we're talking,” she said. “And that's been really quite important, because things are sometimes taken out of context. So we've been on the road since the end of June. I've learned a lot about the United States and our vastness and our different populations,” she said.

Karl asked Birx about a briefing where he sought to clarify discrepancies between Centers for Disease Control guidelines and recommendations coming from the coronavirus task force about testing asymptomatic individuals, saying her answer at the time misconstrued his question.

“You gave an answer that gave the implication that I was wrong. I was not. And then the president jumped on it,” he said. “I mean, that was an important issue, wasn't it? Getting the CDC to finally change its guidelines so that we would see the testing of asymptomatic individuals. I know you advocated for it, it’s kind of why I asked you the question.”

Birx said getting the CDC to change it’s guidelines was part of the reason she joined the White House team.

“That has been a long-term advocacy of mine. It was part of the reason, to be frank, why I came into the White House. Obviously, this was not my job. I have a lot of experience with tracking pandemics and understanding pandemic curves,” she said.

“And I could see that we weren't dealing with the core issues. You don't have those kind of curves in Italy. You don't have those kind of curves in New York City, with only symptomatic patients. It just didn't make sense. So either you had to have amazing aerosolized and surface transmission or you had to have the majority of the transmission being silent and asymptomatic. And so that has worried me from the very beginning. I've been forcing that issue from the beginning because I think it's core,” she added.